tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-605720789950223521.post8869450273076458860..comments2024-03-11T18:37:29.803-07:00Comments on That Happy Expectation: When Did Christ's Life Begin? A Response to Some Miscellaneous Objections + Further Remarks on Colossians 1:15-17 and the Preeminence and Authority of ChristAaron Welchhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11169688326514727094noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-605720789950223521.post-40940319617442993262022-05-04T07:06:29.178-07:002022-05-04T07:06:29.178-07:00With regard to the examples given by the author of...With regard to the examples given by the author of the article to which you provided a link, these examples fail to support his belief that we have "free will." In the "suitor" example, the "riskiness" (and possibility of failure) involved in the attempts of the second young man to "win the love" of the young lady is not due to the fact that the young lady has "free will." It's because the suitor - like all human beings - inherently lacks the wisdom and power to successfully transform another person's heart and guarantee a loving response from them. But God does not possess this creaturely limitation. He does not lack the wisdom and power to successfully transform the hearts of his creatures and guarantee a loving response from them. God has complete control over all circumstances (including the circumstances that result in each of us choosing what we do, and which shape us into the kind of people that we are). Unlike us, God can change someone's heart whenever he pleases to do so, and can 100% guarantee that they become the kind of person who genuinely loves and wants to serve him (as opposed to being "forced against their will" to obey him).<br /><br />Hope that helps.<br /><br />AaronAaron Welchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11169688326514727094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-605720789950223521.post-5629517231575065152022-05-04T07:06:00.413-07:002022-05-04T07:06:00.413-07:00In your comment from 5/3/22, you wrote the followi...In your comment from 5/3/22, you wrote the following:<br /><br />"Hi Aaron, what are your thoughts on this article by an annihilationist? He makes an interesting case for love requiring free will.<br />http://parresiazomai.blogspot.com/2017/06/does-love-require-free-will.html<br />Although I disagree with him that free will exists, and that free will means universalism is false, I think that he makes a pretty good case for its existence."<br /><br /><br />As I've argued elsewhere on my blog (http://thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2014/07/a-critical-look-at-christian-doctrine.html), our being able to choose in accord with the most fundamental desire/preference of our heart (and therefore choosing what we most want to do, or see as best, at the time) - rather than being forced against our will to do something we don't truly want to do - is not what "free will" is (or at least, such could not be called "free will" in the so-called "libertarian" sense). Having "free will" (in the libertarian sense) would mean having the ability to actualize a state of affairs that did not HAVE to occur (and which was not predetermined to occur). When understood in relation to God, having "free will" would mean having the ability to choose something that God did not intend for one to choose, and actualizing a state of affairs that God did not intend to be actualized (and which was not meant/planned by God to occur). However, God is operating all in accord with the counsel of his will, and this means whatever choices we make in life (most of which could be considered the natural expression of our heart, and in accord with what we most desire and value) are made because it was God's intention that we make them.<br /><br />When, in John 10:17-18, Christ spoke of voluntarily laying down his soul (as opposed to having it taken from him against his will), he was not affirming that he had "free will." He was simply affirming the fact that his death would be a voluntary act of obedience to God (and not something that, from his standpoint, would be outside of his control). But of course, Jesus' decision to lay down his soul was in accord with the will and plan of God, and was a fulfillment of prophecy. Although Christ's death was the result of a voluntary act of obedience on Christ's part, it was also something that was just as predetermined by God as Christ's conception and birth was. When Christ voluntarily laid down his soul (and thus exercised his God-given "right to lay it down"), he did not actualize a future that was merely one of several possible futures that, from God's perspective, might not have been actualized. What ended up taking place HAD to take place (because God intended for it to take place), and thus Christ's decision to lay down his soul was not something that might not have occurred. From God's perspective, it was 100% certain that Christ would exercise his right to lay down his soul.<br /><br />(Continued below)Aaron Welchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11169688326514727094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-605720789950223521.post-72961440677285049002022-05-04T07:04:29.116-07:002022-05-04T07:04:29.116-07:00Hi Andrew,
Your most recent comment (from 5/3/22)...Hi Andrew,<br /><br />Your most recent comment (from 5/3/22) reminded me of this earlier comment (which I forgot to respond to)! So I’ll go ahead and respond to both here.<br /><br />First, thanks for the encouraging comments. I’m glad you’ve found my articles on the subject of when Christ’s life began helpful! With regard to my interpretation of Col. 1:15-17, I’m not convinced that the view I defend in my earlier series of articles is “rather strained,” since it’s grammatically possible for Paul to have been referring to Christ’s present act of sustaining creation (preserving everything in its created state), and would simply be another way of affirming the truth of Christ’s creation-upholding work that we find expressed elsewhere (i.e., in 1 Cor. 8:6 and Heb. 1:3). <br /><br />In any case, it’s worth noting that, in an article that was published shortly after my original series of articles was posted on my blog, I defended (as an alternative view that I had come to see as more likely) the same view of Col. 1:16 which you propose. Here’s a link to this article (which was published in BSN, and later in a book that’s based on these articles): bsn712.pdf (biblestudentsnotebook.com). The entire BSN series runs from issues 707 through 718. See also issue 818 (which contains another article I wrote on this subject): bsn818.pdf (biblestudentsnotebook.com)Aaron Welchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11169688326514727094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-605720789950223521.post-7259920565214014402022-04-12T10:50:13.596-07:002022-04-12T10:50:13.596-07:00Hello Aaron,
Your exposition of the supposed &quo...Hello Aaron,<br /><br />Your exposition of the supposed "pre-existence" passages is fantastic! Thank you for doing this work, you are such a help to the body of Christ.<br /><br />I do have one issue with what you said above, though. Your interpretation of Col. 1:15-17 seems rather strained. Instead, I think we should interpret Paul's remark that "all things were made in [Christ]" in light of what he said just two verses previously:<br /><br />"in [Christ] we are having deliverance, the pardon of sins" (v. 14)<br /><br />By saying that all things have been created in Christ, Paul is simply referring to the fact that all things have been created anew in Him, something that Paul says in almost the exact same words elsewhere:<br /><br />"So that, if anyone is **in Christ**, there is a **new creation**: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has come new! Yet **all** is of God" (2 Cor. 5:17-18)<br /><br />Paul says that "all things" (παντα) are a "creation" (κτισις) "in Christ" (εν Χριστω). This is nearly a word-for-word match with what Paul says at the beginning of Col. 1:16.<br /><br />So, I think we should interpret scripture with scripture and take Col. 1:16 to be referring to the fact that everything, visible or invisible, has been created anew in Christ (perhaps proleptically).<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Andrew P.<br /><br />(By the way, if you ever want to join, a number of members of the body of Christ recently got together and created a Discord for "Concordant believers". You can join here: https://discord.gg/ct4urRppVx)Andrew P.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07088620824545718953noreply@blogger.com